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From: flow (
Subject:         we are down to ONE nutrient
Date: April 20, 2015 at 11:10 am PST

In Reply to: Re: is this correct posted by temp on April 20, 2015 at 9:46 am:

I will address your comments from the bottom up,

"we are not fruit bats"

i was not aware of that. thank you!

my point still stands, and whether you like it or
not, the study is VERY good support for healthy
veganism potential in the wild.

you did not address your friend gosia and her
particular diet and health situation. I look
forward to that discussion.

Finally, you have done an excellent job of kindly
answering my questions.

I will first state our agreement here.

-> You have confirmed that There is ONE nutrient
that is impossible to get on a vegan diet. we agree

What this means is the following:

There is theoretically NO difference nutritionally
speaking between the healthfulness and validity of a
vegan diet and a omnivorous diet, except for b12.

I agree that it is MORE likely that one can get
enough of all nutrients on an omnivorous diet
without supplements, however there is a cost to that
type of diet, and many benefits to a well planned
vegan diet.

now i will make a couple comments on your comments.

>However studies also show that conversion of ALA to
DHA is extremely poor and limited

conversion is low for a reason. high levels of dha
are unhealthy.

>Sea vegetables are the only reliable plant food

"reliable" - perhaps true. but that does not mean
that a diet without sea vegetables cannot provide
enough iodine as it purely depends on the soil
conditions of the foods eaten.

one can either choose to eat sea vegetables or not.
not a big deal. if someone wants to follow 811 and
eschew sea vegetables that is their problem. you
can point out the problem without unfairly
criticizing veganism's validity done intelligently.

>Also the diet should provide some vitamin D.

only if not enough sunlight.
we agree.

>Regardless of diet, most individuals rely on
fortified foods such as cereals. But there are solid
dietary sources such as sardines, which contain 50%
of the RDA for vitamin D3.

have you ever tried mackerel as an alternative?

>There is research which shows vegans to suffer from
low iron levels.

we must be careful to differentiate between healthy
raw vegans and "vegans". if you are going to say
"we are not bats" then i must also say that "vegans
are not raw vegans" and you can't apply alleged
deficiencies from "vegans" to intelligent raw
vegans. fair enough?

>This is because plant iron i.e non-heme iron is
extremely poorly absorbed. You can boost the
absorption of plant iron, by pairing it with foods
rich in vitamin C.

and yet raw vegans that i am aware of are not
reporting iron deficiency.

>Taurine/Carnitine -

we may just as well say that omnivorous diets can be
too high in methionine.

still no nutrients that are not potentially
available in a vegan diet other than b12

So to conclude, I have a suggestion for you to

Instead of making inaccurate statements like "where
do vegans get their dha, or zinc, or whatever"

implying that the nutrients are not available or
impossible to get on a vegan diet...

It may be more accurate for you to say something
like, "some nutrients CAN be harder to get enough of
on a vegan diet, so here is what i suggest" or, "a
vegan diet can be healthy provided one insures that
one gets enough of nutrient x,y,z, which is reliably
available in this food", or something of that

because the way you are saying it now is factually
inaccurate, as you have just confirmed, since it is
clearly implying that one cannot get a particular
nutrient in sufficient quantities on a vegan diet,
and that vegan diets are inferior or unhealthy.

you may still have the OPINION that omnivory is
healthier than veganism from a practical standpoint,
but from a study based on the facts, there are no
nutrients that are not POTENTIALLY available in
sufficient amounts except for b12. So if a vegan is
eating intelligently, there may be NO deficiencies
or other problems whatsoever.

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