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From: temp (
Subject:         Re: let me clarify (edit, ignore the other version)
Date: April 19, 2015 at 6:12 am PST

In Reply to: let me clarify (edit, ignore the other version) posted by Dr Gosia O'Reilly on April 18, 2015 at 11:21 pm:

Yeah i mis-read what you originally said sorry.

Although we've had that discussion before on the other forum. That is the problem with B12 deficiency and many other nutrient deficiencies for that matter in that many individuals can be asymptomatic or have no real overt symptoms until levels get severely low.

Which is where the danger lies in following sub-optimal and restrictive diets that are so prone to deficiencies

Gosia wrote - "There are no categorical answers in the literature that would suggest that veganism
necessarily "causes" B12 deficiency (as per actual
symptoms of ill health).

Temp wrote -

No categorical answers ?

I can't agree there in the slightest, there is an absolute wealth of direct evidence on vitamin B12 status and dietary groups i.e omnivore, vegetarian and vegans. The vegans are always the group most at risk of developing B12 deficiency and as the science shows its all directly caused due to low B12 dietary intake.

As per symptoms of ill health, is elevated homo-cysteine levels not bad enough ?

Again we have direct evidence that the reason for the elevated homo-cysteine levels in vegans is caused by low vitamin B12 intake, and sometimes low methionine intake. Both crucial nutrients for homo-cysteine metabolism and the methylation process.

"The studies even found 78% of vegans were deficient in b12 vs 0% of the omnivores. "

"The results show that the mild hyperhomocysteinemia in alternative nutrition(vegan diets) is a consequence of vitamin B(12) deficiency."

Theres more than enough categorical and robus scientific evidence that strict vegan diets cause B12 and many other nutrient deficiencies.

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