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From: John Rose (
Subject:         Re: The Ultimate Solution - Part 2
Date: April 12, 2015 at 8:12 pm PST

In Reply to: Re: The Ultimate Solution - Part 2 posted by BJ on April 12, 2015 at 9:40 am:

>>John, Did you read my original short post somewhere below entitled '' Errors in Health 101, 202, 303 ''?<<


Do you remember these Posts?
From: John Rose (
Subject: Re: If the Ideal CANNOT be Realized in Every Detail…
Date: September 5, 2014 at 4:55 am PST
In Reply to: Re: If the Ideal CANNOT be Realized in Every Detail… posted by BJ on September 4, 2014 at 5:40 pm:
From: John Rose (
Subject: “2 Groups of Needs”
Date: September 20, 2014 at 6:23 am PST
In Reply to: Re: Are Humans Primates or Aliens??? - posted by BJ on September 19, 2014 at 11:40 pm:

>>Our closest relatives the Bonobos and Chimps kill animals from time to time and eat them. Is that part of their Species Specific Diet?<<

You ought to get a kick out of this Post…,112387,page=2
Re: Is veganism a natural diet for man
Posted by: shane (IP Logged)
Date: August 23, 2008 05:35PM

I worked for a few years with bonobos, chimpanzees, and orangutans at the Yerkes Primate Center of Emory University in Atlanta. This was a language research lab, not an medical research lab. I was a entry-level research assistant, and my main duties were to clean cages, feed the primates, and generally hang out with the animals in symbolic language-learning pursuits.

These were all captive animals, obviously, so it was sort of like studying and caring for prisoners. But the lead scientists worked very hard to give the animals a diet that would be as close to what they believed the animals ate in the wild.

The bonobos and chimps ate all kinds of stuff. They were offered a dizzying variety of fresh, wholesome, organic foods from the local farmer's market. They were offered the very best of food, all the local, organic stuff we could find. Diet was huge in the budget. Yet despite a wide array of choice, they craved candy. They loved M&Ms, for example. Any candy bar or processed sugar product that they knew about was what they wanted. Always.

They loved those disgusting "Vienna sausage" things in slimy goo-filled cans. They loved Spam. They adored Coke, and all sugary, crappy drinks that are terrible for their health. We gave them these things in very tiny amounts, but they always wanted them first, second, third, etc., and they would constantly request the most sugary garbage on the menu. They requested via the lexigram system that linguists designed to facilitate symbolic communication between the researchers and the apes.

When denied processed candy and colas and Vienna sausages (and other processed meat) they wanted the next sugary items on the menu. They wanted bananas. Plain and simple: bananas. I know it's a stereotype, but it's true. One banana after another...

The other sweet fruits like cherries, oranges, kiwis, grapes, etc. they ate with half-hearted boredom. They yelped and screamed and hooted for M&Ms. They eagerly requested one banana after the next. You work with primates for a while and you just know what they want to eat and what they don't want to eat. It's simple. It would be obvious to you, too, if you worked there. They did not relish fruit. They ate it with shrugged shoulders, and facial expressions of boredom. Again, these were inmates. And spoiled inmates. They could have anything they wanted.

They would eat a tiny bite of apple or pear, for example, then drop the rest until it rotted in the cage yard, or until I or another Research Tech One would later pick it up and throw it in the trash. With the exception of bananas, I don't think I ever saw a bonobo or a chimp eat an entire fruit.

They didn't much care for nuts, either. Oh, they like peanuts. Shelled peanuts, and they like to peel them without their hands, that is, peel them using only their lips. But they ate shelled peanuts like this because they were bored. That's just my opinion, of course. But they looked bored while eating shelled peanuts. ho-hum... They didn't give a rip about walnuts, pecans, pistachios, or any of the other expensive nuts we offered them, macadamia nuts, Brazil nuts, whatever. They just about never asked for a walnut, lol...

We rarely gave bonobos and trogs any cooked meat. Maybe chicken or beef once or twice a month. When we did, they preferred the meat raw, and they ate it quickly. With cooked meat, they loved the skin, and sometimes would eat only the skin and toss the rest away, to be cleaned up later.

As a general rule, they’re into salty stuff, just like we are. Fatty, salty, sweet stuff. That's what they want. They didn't care much for cheese, or anything dairy. Oh yes, we did give them kefir and yogurt from time to time, and as you can probably guess by now, they liked the most sugary kind of yogurt, and never the plain. To trick them into getting more healthy fruits like berries, we would mix up blueberries and blackberries and raspberries into the yogurt. They would eat this, but they weren't too crazy about it. Bread wasn't real popular, either, nor any of our grains like rice, quinoa, beans, lentils, none of that stuff was often requested by them. We gave them beans, anyway, and they ate it, ho hum.

The orangutans, on the other hand, were much different. The captive orangutans did love fruit, they loved it very much, and they ate the fruit with happy faces. You can just tell by watching them eat. They didn't care so much for the candy and the meat and the colas. We only had two orangutans, and I was much more impressed by their diet than by the bonobo's or the chimp's diet.

As for bonobos, chimps, orangs eating vegetables? HA!! They rarely asked for vegetables, and when I would give them, say, a head of cabbage they would just throw it around. They would pick at it, maybe peel off a leaf and sort of nibble it and look at me with disgust. Sometimes they would throw it at the cage. Reading their minds regarding food is surprisingly easy.

Sometimes they would start little wars and throw heads of lettuce at each other. It was all very dramatic and noisy, these political wars. They scream and pound the cage or the ground, kick up dirt or the pinebark that lined the outdoor cage yard, and they would raise their back hair and bluff charge each other. They can be terrifying and brutal, but mostly it's bluff and politics. They like drama -- screaming, throwing things, charging, or just staring aggressively and swaying their great bodies to and fro. Sometimes it got physical and someone would get hurt. Bitten, mostly, and sometimes deep bites requiring stitches. Captive bonobos and chimps are not nice animals. There is almost nothing very romantic about them. They are angry, bitter, often frightened, very eager to escape, and extremely noisy.

But I don't want to paint too negative of a picture, either. They do have a sense of humor. They can be goofballs and pranksters. They can be sly, and if they had larynges and could speak, I would imagine they’d have a caustic wit.

They’re also intensely smart and manipulative. And remember every one of them is an individual, with his or her own likes and dislikes. Just like we are. So I can't really say... " They hate vegetables..." What I can say, though, is "Tamuli hates carrots, but sorta likes beets. Panbanisha doesn't like watermelon very much, but she loves to peel the skins off grapes, eat the insides, and discard the skin and the seeds. Kanzi is a fat tub of lard and eats all the sugary crap he can stuff down his throat..."

One more sweeping generalization, though, is that they are very, very political. Very much into the hiararchy of power. And the power struggles and shifts, the changing alliances are constant, and very much like baboons in this way. They are so very much like we are. Google "Frans de Waal Chimpanzee Politics." I doubt anyone who has worked with chimps would ever believe man was made from the rib of Adam. The political similarities between us are just too overwhelming. We have evolved from apes, and our diet has, too.

And so Arugula is dead-on with this comment: "I think it's natural for people to evolve, to grow, to change, to become something better. Since we discovered that we can make veganism work, it's natural to go vegan. We are not slaves to our primitive and bloody pasts." Pan troglodytes and Pan paniscus represent our primitive and bloody pasts. Working with them makes this entirely clear, and most people with the ability to observe and to think rationally quickly see the obvious.

Also, these animals love, love, love sugarcane stalks. They munch the long brown stalks for hours, and when their emotional baggage would fling violently open again, like clockwork, they would swing available sugarcane stalks like baseball bats. These would become sweet, sugary weapons. No natural food was revered, even bananas. But to use, say, cola as a weapon to throw into someone's eyes would be absolutely unthinkable. Maybe water to throw in the eyes, but the Mountain Dew, or whatever, was cherished.

Sorry this was so very long. It's a rainy, boring Saturday! But my summary is that judging from the behavior of captive apes (except the orangs) these individuals would eat a SAD whenever and however they could get away with it.,112387,page=2

To access the link above, back out the “------”

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