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From: temp (
Subject:         Re: My Zinc and Copper yesterday + fairytale ideas on nutrition + questionable high fruit diets
Date: November 14, 2014 at 2:30 am PST

In Reply to: Re: My Zinc and Copper yesterday + fairytale ideas on nutrition + questionable high fruit diets posted by Gina on November 13, 2014 at 4:49 pm:

Its not rocket science though, if you eat a majority plant based diet i.e 70% of your diet from plant foods, as the research shows you will lower your risk of many degenerative diseases and health conditions.

However no research suggests that there is even more health benefits to be had by going 100% strict plant based vegan or any of these so-called raw vegan diets such as 80/10/10. There is simply no research validating the safety or supposed benefits from eating strict raw vegan 80/10/10.

In fact the majority of research to date on vegan diets isn't positive and shows that eating 100% plant based diets comes at the risk of developing many serious nutrient deficiencies as we've already mentioned.

Your story is interesting and i also don't care for many animal foods myself. 1993 is a long time eating strict plant based if you are being honest here. Animal foods can also be pro-inflammatory due to the arachidonic acid acid they contain.

However animal foods also supply many nutrients that we can't easily source from plant foods unfortunately. I find it very hard to believe, that if you were eating a majority plant based diet like you claim, rich in a variety of different plant foods, that eating a small amount of animal foods caused you inflammatory problems and so quickly. I mean were you eating excessive amounts of red meat or something ? There are also plenty of anti-inflammatory animal foods such as sardines, rich in anti-inflammatory omega-3 fatty acids such as EPA/DHA.

As to gaining excess weight, unless their is something else going on such as the thyroid or liver, then it simply comes down to that you were consuming more calories than you were expending. Animal foods are dense sources of calories, so its not surprising that many put on weight after returning from strict plant based diets.

Fermented foods and beneficial bacteria can produce small amounts of vitamin B12, as does our intestinal flora. But we couldn't derive enough dietary vitamin B12 from these sources. Algaes and seaweeds are also possible B12 sources, but again unreliable at this stage and research shows often to contain pseudo-analogs of Vitamin B12.

Like i say you get no rewards for dietary strictness and you may actually run into more problems by overly-restricting your diet like many raw vegans do.

TSM: People can survive for years on sub-optimal diets, i lived for decades on a diet consisting of junk food, sugary sweets, SAD food, sodas, alcohol, cigarettes and worse, but it catches up with most eventually. I survived for years on a strict mixed cooked/raw vegan diet myself, so i know it can be done for lengthy periods, but the real question is it healthy and justified ?.

Like i say you get no prizes from being 100% strict plant based and 70%/majority plant based, which the research shows is more than enough to get the health benefits from these plant foods.

But many of your guys aren't even eating a varied vegan diet that contains a variety of different plant foods. The bulk of what 80/10/10ers are eating daily, consists of sugary fruit, romaine lettuce/salad greens and a few nuts. Which isn't what i consider a healthy or balanced diet.

It can potentially cost alot of money to cover the cracks in the vegan diet. That is the price of regular nutritional yeast, but not B12 fortified brands such as redstar. Nutritional Yeast doesn't naturally contain vitamin B12, although is a great source of other B-complex vitamins. Again like other fortified foods, redstar is a synthetic supplement in essence, in regards to the fortified synthetic B12. Have you seen the price of B12-Forte that Brian Clement used to sell, its about 50 here in the UK. That is to supply one nutrient/supplement and only for one person as a vegan. People like Brian Clement try to sell the idea of raw veganism, then in the next breath are recommending single supplements worth 60-70$ as mandatory, not optional. How would you recommend people on a budget live healthy Gina ?

Like ive said to TSM and many of my other current vegan friends, i wish them all the best with there attempts on the diet.

If they can make a strict plant based diet work in the long term and honestly, then more power to them, id love to hear more about how there doing this if they can. But we just aren't seeing long term examples in order to do that, its just constant waves of newbies in most cases and so called long-termers who regularly cheat with animal and other cooked foods, but still consider themselves 100% raw vegans.

Its very difficult to find any credible long term raw vegan examples. You make it sound like there are millions of glaring examples of raw vegan and that im blind for not seeing them, but the raw forums are like ghost towns for a reason these days.

The raw vegan diet doesn't work for most individuals and everyone is beginning to finally see that.

TSM: That is very strange that you mention Mr Kearns(who i assume is the Sproutarian guy) has been vegan for years but surprisingly supplements with Vitamin C ?

Surely if hes eating enough plant foods, he'd be getting several times the recommended daily allowance for vitamin C, its probably the one nutrient that vegans don't need to care about.

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