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From: temp (
Subject:         Re: My Zinc and Copper yesterday + fairytale ideas on nutrition + questionable high fruit diets
Date: November 13, 2014 at 2:35 pm PST

In Reply to: Re: My Zinc and Copper yesterday + fairytale ideas on nutrition + questionable high fruit diets posted by Gina on November 13, 2014 at 12:31 pm:

I have no problems with supplement semantics Gina. Im well aware of the differences in wholefood supplements, herbs and synthetic supplements.

If it comes in a bottle, generally i would consider it a supplement however. You are not foraging wild weeds here, many of these supplements are formulated in labs, when it comes to vitamin B12 supplements, these are not powdered herbs, grasses etc, they are man-made and often synthetic supplements.

Again i have no issue with even using synthetic supplements, if there is some logical reason such as deficiency or boosting levels because your not eating so well temporarily for whatever reason, or that you suffer from a health condition with a physiological need for more zinc, magnesium, vitamin Bs or whatever nutrient.

My gripe is being reliant on supplements to provide basic essential nutrients, which the diet is meant to provide naturally.

If for any reason you can't afford the supplements such as vitamin B12, then you are stuffed if following a strict vegan diet. Like i say your talking around 40-100 of supplements a month per person to cover the vegan diet, how does a family of 4 on welfare eat vegan ? These people struggle to purchase enough foods, let alone 4-5+ expensive, fancy supplements.

The research consistently shows that vegans score lowest out of any group for vitamin B12 levels, significantly lower than their vegetarian and omnivore counterparts.

You assume too much, i know fine well that we derive the majority of our vitamin D intake from exposure to sunlight. However we don't all live in the sunny tropics or in countries with high quality sunlight year round.

Studies still show that vitamin D is a common deficiency, especially here in the UK. The diet is also meant to provide a small amount of vitamin D, of which the vegan diet typically provides nothing.

I also do not care for random anecdotal names whether Brian Clement, Lou Corono or whoever it will be next week. I have been around the raw food movement long enough and trust me ive heard all the shining raw vegan examples in that time.

It was only a month back that Doug Graham would have still been the shining example and before that it would have been durianrider and freelea. Before that Swazye Foster, Chris Randell, Dan The Man, Mike Arnstein, Megan Elizabeth and where are they all now ? Back eating cooked foods and some were hearing animal foods too. Not surprising considering the 80/10/10 diets that some of these people diligently promoted aren't sustainable for health in the long term.

Maybe because im so silly, you can enlighten us why all the raw vegan gurus of the recent generation have failed, returning to cooked and even animal foods and why the majority of the forum veterans have also run into problems with these raw vegan diets ?

Also how long have you been strict vegan yourself out of interest, seen as how you tell me im just learning. Which i fair enough as i am, but i have practical experience of vegan diets and am more than qualified to talk about my own experiences with these diets.

The nature of this is that we are all aloud an opinion on diet, its a pity some get so upset of different thoughts and beliefs.

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