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From: Sally (
Subject:         Harley, Lennie was in a CULT, just as you were. Give her a break
Date: August 27, 2014 at 11:03 am PST

In Reply to: Why didnt you contact me in person? posted by Durianrider on August 27, 2014 at 3:57 am:

811rv is very much like scientology. It's based on dogma, not science,
and it's based around one person's interpretation of that dogma.

In other words, it is a cult, and "Dr" Doug Graham is a cult leader.

You have to understand the dynamics of cults and how even people
who have left the cult are still members in a way until they get fully
deprogrammed. That is a process that can take a long time.

Graham is a sociopath, maybe a psychopath. He is a Jim Jones kind of
character in that he is a supreme leader who is never wrong, who
people must respect and even fear to a degree. And he is a patholotical liar.

Look at the video of Leah's mother. She took Leah to the hospital and
OBEYED DOUG'S DIRECTIVE not to tell the hospital doctors that Leah
had been fasting.

Now logic would have it that in order to insure her daughter got the
best care, she would share absolutely everything with medical
authorities so that they could have information to serve Leah best.

And yet Leah's mother followed Doug's self-serving instructions not to
tell emergency room doctors about the fasting! She was under his
control in the way a cult leader can control others.

It's an unfortunate truth (unless you are a cult leader) that the raw
vegan world contains a much higher than average number of
desperate, vulnerable people who are looking for a leader to do their
thinking. They are willing to abdicate critical thinking over to someone
who others clearly perceive to be a charlatan.

Lennie no doubt struggled and may still struggle with having been a
19-yr-old who got sucked into this.

Why do you think so many people are crying out for a new "leader" on
this board? They are cult follower personalities. They have lost Doug
because only the most indoctrinated can now ignore the clear evidence
in order to continue following him. That's why you see a minority of
people on this board still clinging to Doug, and that's why Lennie had
and probably still has so much trouble being anything more than
cryptic about what she's seen and experienced with Doug.

She knows on some level that Doug is the ultimate con man, he
conned her and she helped him con others, by not questioning or
revealing her misgivings to others.

It can be extremely difficult for cult members to break their emotional
and addiction-like attachment to the cult leader, even in the face of
overwhelming public evidence that it's really just a cult.

Look at the "science" Doug uses to back up his positions. There is
none. Doug is the only expert who was on vegsource where there was
nothing scientific backing him up. He was not a doctor or a researcher
or anything other than a pontificator.

But it turns out he wasn't a harmless quack, but a harmful one. A cult
leader responsible for deaths, responsible for Lennie's continuing
health problems. His diet is for cult followers, for people who want
others to do their thinking and not have to think themselves. The cult
followers end up injured or ripped off for the money and time they put

Where is there ANY support for the dogma that 100% raw is in any way
better than 90% raw? None of this is supported by anything other than
Doug's pronouncements, which we all know Doug lies, he lied about
who was moderating this board and removing discussions about the
deaths from his fasting retreats, and so on.

You guys are all cult members, and Harley was one, too. He defended
Doug when charges came up, he chose to believe Doug's lies.

If Doug had allowed Harley the space Harley was occupying in
becoming a leader himself, would Harley have researched and sought
to expose Doug? Or would Harley have been content to become his own
guru alongside Doug?

That's not really fair, because a big part of Harley's message is to "be
your own guru" and not follow people just because they say
something. Harley is a little full of $hit himself, I don't follow him but
I do find he has things to offer and I do watch his videos and learn
interesting stuff. Other wild and unsupported stuff he may put out,
like adding a bunch of sugar, I reject from him just as I reject stuff
from others.

But do not be confused with the work of a Dr. McDougall or Dr.
Barnard or Dr. Esselstyn, and the "work" of a "Dr." Graham. Those are
doctors and researchers while Graham is a guru cult leader.

And so it takes some people a while to realize and recognize and
admit that they were sucked into a cult, that the feeling they feel
toward Graham and wanting to not expose him or not admit they were
an accessory to his abuses, that is a process that can take some time.

I agree it would be good for Lennie to "come clean" at some point and
voice the problems, outrages and dishonesty she witnessed.

But let's be clear that until very recently, this discussion board was
largely populated by cult followers and moderated by a cult leader.

And that the dynamics of cult followers means people will protect the
guru, even when it's shown the guru is a liar and abuser, because that
is how the cult dynamic works. Some of the people on this board are
still in the cult, have thrown logic out the window and will defend the
guru no matter what.

It always takes a certain amount of time for a cult follower to be
deprogrammed. In Lennie's case, it appears to be years.

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