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From: MM (
Subject:         Re: This is definitely armchair quarterbacking. n/t
Date: August 20, 2011 at 8:45 pm PST

In Reply to: This is definitely armchair quarterbacking. n/t posted by Jack Smithheisler on August 20, 2011 at 12:49 pm:

Let's compare apples to apples shall we? Since the insinuation is that the rest of us don't know the heck about what we are talking about and so we should keep out of it. So let's go to others who make this their living as well, shall we?

True North has credentials: their staff are board certified MD's or nurses with years of schooling.

They have done thousands of fasts.

They REQUIRE a non-refundable fee of about $400 for a prescreening physical.

They also charge a daily fee for the urine samples and blood work.

Nick in Hawaii is a raw foodist and runs a fasting center there. He interned at True North. He also does these same physicals and lab works.

Why to THEY do it, Doug's peers, and yet Doug doesn't do it?

How many deaths have to happen at an intersection before they put in a street light? One? Five? Ten?

Nobody's putting down fasting. Nobody's even putting down Doug.

When I first heard of the first death of the woman who died because she didn't disclose her diabetes I thought "well, how can you deal with what you don't know about?"

Then this death was attributed to her not disclosing heart arrythmia.

Medical doctors protect themselves by various measures. Why would Doug not want to protect HIMSELF, let alone his clients, by putting in place some measures? People lie. Let's keep everybody honest by doing blood work. Heck, technology kept Bill Clinton honest even when he didn't want to be. It has it's uses.

It's not an unreasonable request. You take a physical and you take some tests. Big deal. Small price to pay for more peace of mind.

People on here religiously put their food into cronometer and some inject themselves with B-12 shots, so what's the big deal about asking for tests and taking blood?

We're not just talking about some abstracts here.
A woman died. Her mate blogs about it regularly on Facebook even now, six months after it happened. She is grieving the loss of her mate.

Even though Doug gave them a funeral and stayed on good terms, I think that, in honor of her memory, even more should be done.

Fasting is just as risky as surgery. Some make it through surgery, some don't. It is a risk you take. But does that mean you just throw caution to the wind and just take your chances? Some are better candidates for surgery and other's are too weak. We take all this into account. We put controls in place to minimize the risks.

Fasting, when done right, can be a powerful healing modality.

All we are asking is that some "guard rails" be put up. Make it as safe as possible.

And we want fasting to go mainstream and have insurance cover it? Fat chance if you don't assure the public that it's as safe as possible.

It's time to be reasonable here and quit being so defensive.

It's sad it happened, but what's even sadder is if we don't learn the lesson from it and keep repeating the same mistakes. Mistakes are not to condemn anybody, but to be learned from.

Own it. Even if it really wasn't your fault. OWN IT. People are trusting you and going to you instead of the medical institution because they are sick of being preyed upon by those who just want us to take expensive drugs and have expensive surgeries.

Show them that they can count on integrity and safety outside the medical realm and find a better experience than they've already had.

They are used to blood tests and physicals. They may not like them, but they begrudingly do them because they realize they yield good information that we might otherwise not know sans getting opened up by a knife.

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