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From: f1jim (
Subject:         Re: HDL
Date: March 22, 2009 at 1:13 pm PST

In Reply to: Re: HDL posted by c on March 12, 2009 at 2:07 pm:

Lowered HDL is common with a low fat, plant based diet. It's also common, as was mentioned earlier, in populations with very low levels of Western disease. See the raw data from The China Study by T. Colin Campbell. Low HDL seems to be the norm for large groups of healthy, long lived, populations. Ornish, McDougall, Barnard, and others have the same position. I have heard Dr. Esselstyn speak and I believe you are misunderstanding his position. He fully endorses the McDougall/Ornish diets with his own caveats about nuts and seeds for heart patients. His own data shows the drop in HDL. I am sure he would agree that all things being equal, someone with the same level of LDL as another would be better served with higher HDL but at the much lower levels achieved by a healthy plant based diet, it's a non-issue. You cloud the waters with your comparison to diets that achieve some success in numbers at the expense of long term health. Just losing weight will show progress with some blood markers. There is a large body of clinical success at Dr. McDougall's facility, the Pritikin Center, Dr. Ornish's multiple programs, True North Clinic and many others. Reversal of heart disease is as much proof as I need. I have personally experienced it, so has Dr. Pinckney, so have those in the Esselstyn and Ornish studies. No other diet can claim this success. Period. If that isn't enough for you, there isn't anything anyone here on the board can offer.

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